any active or former Military Service or law enforcement members here?

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any active or former Military Service or law enforcement members here?

Post  Matt_Stampe on Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm

I am always curious as to what some of the law enforcement people do and as well as military as I have worked with some of the Army combative people at a Juijitsu school and some Navy Seal guys as well as CIA people. Though many of them take martial arts at schools. I went to a law enforcement gym before, but some of the joint manipulation stuff might not work against a angry and drunk martial artist. However I do like some of the escorting type of holds that could actually work and I have seen used by bouncers.

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Re: any active or former Military Service or law enforcement members here?

Post  Brian L. Kennedy on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:05 am

I am not a cop or a soldier but based on what I have seen over my years in both the California and Taiwanese criminal justice systems, what cops rely on is two things: weight training and backup. No fooling, that would be my answer. I am pretty sure cadets at the San Diego Academy are taught if an arrest is going to get physical then back off to your car, radio for back up, when you get about a 4 to 1 ratio---then make the arrest. I would say too that a fair percentage of the cops that I see here in San Diego are hitting the weights.

take care,
Brian

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Post  Paul Sacramento on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:30 pm

In all the years that I bounced, all the "come alongs" and "standing joint locks" that worked, worked because the trouble maker was out numbered.
Taking a patron out with MINIMAL harm to him ( via a come a long or joint lock) only works when you have that numerical and strength advantage.
And strength matters, A LOT.

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Re: any active or former Military Service or law enforcement members here?

Post  Brian L. Kennedy on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:31 am

One thing that is often overlooked when pondering what military units or police agencies are taught is the money/bidding/political connections aspects of things. The guy teaching SEAL Team X, or the guy teaching at the LAPD Academy may----or may not---have the best system or be the best teacher. That person maybe teaching there because of their political connections, personal connections or maybe because they won a bid to deliver teaching for the least amount of money (i.e. they were the lowest bidder).

I have long sensed that people think "oh if the SEALS are taught system X by teacher Y then that is the best system and teacher". Maybe yes, maybe no. It comes out in historical discussions too; you will hear people say, "system X was taught to the Royal Imperial Guards so you know it is the best system". Actually you do not know that; system X may have sucked as a martial art but the founder of system X was well connected so he got the contract. I saw the same thing with the modern Taiwanese (ROC) military; alot of the teachers they had were buffoons teaching garbage. But they were connected buffoons!

yours in government contracting,
Brian

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Re: any active or former Military Service or law enforcement members here?

Post  Paul Sacramento on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:20 am

Brian L. Kennedy wrote:One thing that is often overlooked when pondering what military units or police agencies are taught is the money/bidding/political connections aspects of things. The guy teaching SEAL Team X, or the guy teaching at the LAPD Academy may----or may not---have the best system or be the best teacher. That person maybe teaching there because of their political connections, personal connections or maybe because they won a bid to deliver teaching for the least amount of money (i.e. they were the lowest bidder).

I have long sensed that people think "oh if the SEALS are taught system X by teacher Y then that is the best system and teacher". Maybe yes, maybe no. It comes out in historical discussions too; you will hear people say, "system X was taught to the Royal Imperial Guards so you know it is the best system". Actually you do not know that; system X may have sucked as a martial art but the founder of system X was well connected so he got the contract. I saw the same thing with the modern Taiwanese (ROC) military; alot of the teachers they had were buffoons teaching garbage. But they were connected buffoons!

yours in government contracting,
Brian

I have seen some of the training that SEALS and SF get and even in the Canadian military the spec ops forces.
The whole " SO-SO taught the NAVY seals" thing means very little for various reasons:
Typically SF do NOT put much stock in empty hand fighting, those that do AFTER they become SF tend to train with who ever they want on their free time or amongst each other if they already know MA.
In the Canadian army I was exposed to MT, Sambo, boxing, Judo, Karate, etc, etc but BT was a hybrid of everything and after, well, you went to what interested you and what was available.
Sometimes a SF guy gets to know a MA or a MA WAS a SF guy and they get the inside track on teaching team or so or a systems becomes popular with a group ( like BJJ with the Rangers).
In the end, every branch has their "flavour of the day" and they all amount to the samething:
How well it can be sold to the guys NOT doing it - the upperecheleon awarding the contract
How much the guys that choose to do it, like it.

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