Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

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Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Sifu Mark Rasmus on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:06 am

Greetings Members,

I am setting up an internal MMA school in Osaka, Japan. The training system is fundamentally Tai Chi, with add ons and adaptation as required.

I currently have these training areas.
1. Striking
2. Push hands/ chi sau with striking
3. Fajin training
4. Sparring - slow rhythm type sparring to learn timing and technique application, heavier sparring comes later.

To be added later.

5. Strength and conditioning
6. Submission wrestling (will bring in a specialist coach)


At present the group trains in a community hall twice a week and in a park once a week. When I can secure a permanent venue I will include the submission wrestling, strength and conditioning, for now they will be left out due to time constraints, venue and equipment requirements.
I also recommending anyone wishing to compete to also do a morning run for additional cardio.

Any idea's, online resources, training videos, experiences and other inspiration is appreciated.
Thanks for the input

Mark
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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  David A Ross on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:28 am

I am actually not a big fan of the entire term "internal". I think all Chinese martial arts share certain basic principles and understanding.

I have a lot of respect for Tai Chi / Taiji, that is REAL tai chi / Taiji. We've found doing the Taiwan version of push hands very useful for our wrestling / MMA training. That is to say, as long as you don't get lost in the "mythical" stuff, you have a very good martial art there!

I wish you a lot of luck. I'd suggest that you don't start with any pre conceived notions and see how things develop.

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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Sifu Mark Rasmus on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:05 am

Hi David,
Thanks for the feedback.
Everything we do is sparring and rhythm based learning, so delusional applications are minimal. We also do movement internally, in that the mind adheres to the chi to move. Different point of awareness to athletic training.
External training = mind focuses on body to move
Internal training = mind fuses in to the chi to move body, mind - chi - body fusion.
With internal training the awareness is tuned into the body through a different channel.
Be well
Mark
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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  David A Ross on Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:33 pm

Again, not a big fan of mythic terminology. I personally don't believe chi moves the body, I think it's a way to explain movement and/or a teaching device. But if it works for you!

I think you are beginning an interesting project, so please do keep us informed, perhaps even post some videos as you get going
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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Matt_Stampe on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:29 pm

Sifu Mark Ramus,

Congrats on your endevour. The first thing I think about when someone wants to open a MMA gym (since they are popping up all the time around here in USA) is does the teacher have fight experience? are the coaches qualified to teach fighting? what kind of strength and conditioning certifications do they have? I'll use the school I went to as an example.

I went to a school where the owner was a MMA champion and coached other MMA fighting champions, he also employed some top trainers for various classes. The Muay Thai class was taught by guys who competed many times in Muay thai and had won Championships. The Boxing coach was a Pro Boxer, the wrestling coach was a Ukrainian champion, the Judo coach was an alternate on the Korean Olympic Judo team, the BJJ coach was a multiple time champion in NAGA, events and competed nationally and internationally. The strength and conditioning coaches were certified in kettlebell training, Crossfit, and MMA conditioning through various organizations. No two classes were ever the same like typical Chinese martial arts class: same warm up, same qigong, same, form, same push hands each time. The school was also affiliated with a bigger MMA school with many more experienced instructors that coached champions in MMA, Muay Thai, and BJJ with enough clout to bring Pro MMA fighters who were on tour to do seminars.

There are several schools in the area now that fit this type of model by employing active or former competitors and champions.

Then there is the cookie cutter type of schools. A perfect example for me would be like L.A. Boxing franchise. The trainers have little or no fight experience, and conditioning coaches questionable. The classes are typically the same. The MMA, Muay Thai, sparring, is at best once a week if at all. The staff and schedule is constantly changing since instructors come and go.

My personal view- if I am going to train with someone who does MMA, it would certainly be with someone reputable who has "been there, done that" in terms of fighting successfully, successfully trained good fighters and champions, has good rapport in the MMA community. I havent seen any traditional Chinese martial artist do well in MMA. Cung Le, Pat BArry , Dan Hardy and a few other had tried Chinese martial arts at one time but definitely grew as fighters outside of Chinese martial arts.

sincerely,

matt




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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  David A Ross on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:05 pm

Having some competition experience is important, but too many MMA people think you have to be a 20 something professional A CLASS fighter to coach.

The basic question for a student is, can this school/instructor make me better? I can name a long list of people who were GREAT fighters who actually suck (pardon my language) as a coach. There are also quite a few of us "b class" only mildly successful amateurs who have trained piles of fighters.

If I was going to be skeptical of anything, it would be things like "chi moves the body" etc....
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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Matt_Stampe on Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:28 pm



I agree with the fact that many great coaches do not have to be Level A champions to be great coaches. I have had some really good fight coaches that only stepped into the ring a few times and coach part time outside their day job. I myself have only fought a few times as well. My first teacher was big the the quote "know who you are, not what you should be." what it comes down to for me is this. My day, M-F from going to work to getting home is 10 hours involved in I.T./Ecommerce profession. I went to college and got a job. I didnt train as a fighter full time nor involved in martial arts. Real fighters and coaches do it all all day as a profession 12+ hours a day. I help train guys at best 3 or 4 hours a week if that. Why cause I am an I.T. guy who likes to train and coach on the side when I can and not a high level coach or champion.

Now one of my pet-peeves with guys who are full time Sifu's, Coaches or whatever out there on forums talking the talk, yet never competed or even developed fighters to represent their school or association. my question: Your a full time coach or martial artist. whats held (or is holding) you back from testing your skills in fighting or at least tui shou, shuai chiao, or chi sao? (other than your age)... I mean I'm a full time I.T. geek and I still tried my hand at the combat games in San shou, Lei Tai, and tui shou. That is why I have a lot of respect for guys who have gone out and fought and trained fighters who are teachers full time. Other than that, how can you believe in the guy who never fought or has developed fighters?

Matt


Last edited by Matt_Stampe on Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edit)

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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  David A Ross on Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:05 pm

Matt_Stampe wrote:

full time Sifu's, Coaches or whatever out there on forums talking the talk, yet never competed or even developed fighters to represent their school or association. my question: Your a full time coach or martial artist. whats held (or is holding) you back from testing your skills in fighting or at least tui shou, shuai chiao, or chi sao? (other than your age)...


Depending upon your age, you may have had limited opportunities. For me, by the time I got into Chinatown and started doing Chinese martial arts, the full contact events that Fu Jow Pai had sponsored were dying down. I traveled to Washington DC and Philadelphia for what turned out (BOTH TIMES) to be utter cluster f--ks.

When I did Taekwondo I did the (then AAU sponsored) full contact events. I did some PAL boxing as a kid.

When I was in my "prime" as far as competition age, I don't think there were push hands or real LEi Tai events. San Shou didn't really exist in the US until 1992. By then I was married, trying to run CTS's school, going to graduate school FULL time, working part time to support school and wife, etc. You know, the "fun stuff"

Of course, today's student can try ANYTHING...
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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Rob Burnett on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:49 am

I don't have too much to say about this here right now, since I am full of beans (strong coffee beans) and am kind of bouncing off the walls right now,
but will say that this is a great idea, go with it. I am doing something similar with my stuff right now and it works. I scared the shit out of some local wushu and taiji champs in xiamen over the weekend.

I will be in your neighborhood in January.
if you have time, I would love to come visit and compare notes.
We can probably be useful to each other.
I'll be in Tokyo from about January tenth to sixteenth (after that I have to pop up to Hokkaido for a month for some r&r), but I have been looking for an excuse to come to Kinki region for a while, and I have heard that Osaka has good eats.
Lets do martial arts stuff and eat food together.

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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Sifu Mark Rasmus on Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:14 am

Matt_Stampe wrote:Sifu Mark Ramus,

Congrats on your endevour. The first thing I think about when someone wants to open a MMA gym (since they are popping up all the time around here in USA) is does the teacher have fight experience? are the coaches qualified to teach fighting? what kind of strength and conditioning certifications do they have? I'll use the school I went to as an example..........


Hi Matt,
What you say is very true. Good coaches make the school. I hope to find a qualified submission wrestling coach. It will be a 2 coach training team. Very small. No budget for finding champions and bringing them in as coaches.
As for myself I have never fought in MMA, it wasnt around when I was young. I have 1000's of hours of sparring over the last 35 years, which have formed into a good system over the last 26 years of teaching.
The truth comes out in the ring, sparring with people you dont know. It has been through sparring and working as a bouncer that I developed my art.
The ground fighting is the new component, where I need a good coach to partner up with.
Unfortunately I have to leave Japan due to visa problems. Back to Australia for me.
So I will look for a venue in Brisbane, Australia.
When are you going to Thailand next? I will be in Chiang Mai in a couple weeks time if you want to drop by for some push hands. I vaguely remember you saying you are coming to thai in the new year?
Mark
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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Matt_Stampe on Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:32 pm

My plans for Thailand have been pushed back due to new job. I was going to be there right about now. We were there last Jan. 2011. January is our preferred vacation time to escape cold North American winter. Wife is going in March now. I might go in Oct. 2012 to get some additional time for massage at Wat Po in Bangkok for CEU's in massage therapy.
My cousin is building homes in Chiang Mai near the Night Safari. the development is call SUKSAMRAN IN NATURE

on facebook it is here:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150089650528864.277591.672208863&type=3

Matt

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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Sifu Mark Rasmus on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:37 am

Nice resort. Is he selling the units? Renting? Is there a place I could hire to run my chi kung courses there? Need accommodation for small groups and a small conference room. Smile
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Re: Internal MMA training system, what are your thoughts?

Post  Sifu Mark Rasmus on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:45 am

Rob Burnett wrote:
I will be in your neighborhood in January.
if you have time, I would love to come visit and compare notes.
We can probably be useful to each other.
I'll be in Tokyo from about January tenth to sixteenth (after that I have to pop up to Hokkaido for a month for some r&r), but I have been looking for an excuse to come to Kinki region for a while, and I have heard that Osaka has good eats.
Lets do martial arts stuff and eat food together.

Hi Rob,
I just read your post. I am here in Kyoto until the 18th January. Then off to Thailand for a month, then training in Kuala Lumpur and then back to Australia.
If you can head this way my Japan number is 090 94 96 95 06
Mark
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