If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

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If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  natsuchato on Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:59 pm

Just curious, if you could specialize in only two striking styles, what would they be? Mine would be boxing and muay thai, although I love the quickness and explosiveness of TKD.

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  Admin on Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:49 am

Boxing and Muay Thai for their simplicity and effectivness-

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  omar-belove on Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:57 am

It's not really a hypothetical. I'm already combining Baji and Taiji.

The idea is to mix the hardest Chinese style there is with the softest. Much like the Muay Thai/Boxing combo, Taiji and Baji can blend seemlessly.

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  Mike Patterson on Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:33 pm

Yeah. For us also, it's not hypothetical. We've done very well combining hsingi (xingyi) and pakua (bagua) for kuoshu/leitai competition. They play nicely together. Smile

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  omar-belove on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:23 am

Mr. Patterson,

I am well aware of the tradition of combining Xingyi and Bagua but do you ever think it's a bit redundant? Other than the Bagua footwork strategy, I sometimes wonder what is to be gained by combining them. It always seemed to me that they were combined mainly because there is no inherent conflict between in the shenfa. Doesn't it make more sense to really focus on one or the other? I can only really see adding some bagua footwork drills to Xingyi or maybe doing some Santi practice would help a bagua guy. Beyond that, I dunno.

Matt,
The boxing Muay Thai thing seems more obvious and that's probably why so many people do it. Boxer's can typically outpunch Thai fighters but have no kicks at all so there's a clear synchronicity there where both styles can be strengthened.

In general:
The idea with Baji and Taiji is not about the tactical repertoire. Baji is a little lacking on the throwing side which Taiji is strong in but the real reason for the combination is to add Taiji energies such as sticking, following and tactical ideas like "舍己从人"(abandoning your own intent in order to respond more perfectly to your opponent) Fortunatly, while strategically different, the shenfa of the two styles is pretty much the same. It's like Xingyi and Bagua that way.

I'm also wondering how the Muay Thai/Boxing combo works with regard to leg weighting. A classical Muay Thai stance is rear weighted at nearly all times while a standard boxing stance is front weighted. If you move the weight to the rear leg to protect against leg kicks, how does that affect your boxing punching?

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  Mike Patterson on Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:22 pm

omar-belove wrote:Mr. Patterson,

I am well aware of the tradition of combining Xingyi and Bagua but do you ever think it's a bit redundant? Other than the Bagua footwork strategy, I sometimes wonder what is to be gained by combining them. It always seemed to me that they were combined mainly because there is no inherent conflict between in the shenfa. Doesn't it make more sense to really focus on one or the other? I can only really see adding some bagua footwork drills to Xingyi or maybe doing some Santi practice would help a bagua guy. Beyond that, I dunno.

Well.. the original poster said "two" so I listed two. But actually, as per the "Tang Shou Tao" tradition, we combine all three including Taiji. Since my RSPCT program draws more heavily from xingyi and bagua initially I had chosed to list those two. We feel that from each style, different tactical overlays are gleaned... different ways to do the same thing which can then be adapted to the different personalities of our fighters.

Redundant? Perhaps one way to look at it I guess. I prefer to look at them as complimentary. One learned mechanic/engine, then different persuasions in how to utilize the mechanic/engine learned. As a simple example; Xingyi's principle of "yao" will get you flank advantage through applied and appropriately vectored force. Bagua's principle of "pyan" will get you flank advantage through footwork. Depending on what type of opponent you may be fighting, both have their place. Smile

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  Justin Sturgill on Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:02 pm

I actually see no reason to add any other striking style to what I already do. I have started doing a little bit of xingyi but I don't find it substantially different from the rest of what I practice. The combat tiger system already includes punches, kicks, knife hands, palm strikes, ridge hands, tiger claw strikes, knees, elbows, multiple defensive methods, varied footwork, and hard and soft principles. How you apply those principles is up the individual and with significant experience you develop your own preferred methods.

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  omar-belove on Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:45 am

Mike Patterson wrote:
Redundant? Perhaps one way to look at it I guess. I prefer to look at them as complimentary. One learned mechanic/engine, then different persuasions in how to utilize the mechanic/engine learned. As a simple example; Xingyi's principle of "yao" will get you flank advantage through applied and appropriately vectored force. Bagua's principle of "pyan" will get you flank advantage through footwork. Depending on what type of opponent you may be fighting, both have their place. Smile
Could you elaborate a little bit on the different between "yao" and "pyan"? If you can type Chinese, the characters would be helpful for me to get a feeling for what you mean. I am guessing it's 摇 and 偏 but that's just a guess. I also have a suspicion that "yao" is closer to what is emphasized in Baji. As for "pyan", again, I can only guess but I have a strong feeling it's basically what I was drilling in the week leading up to my leitai fight. Did a bunch of very light sparring where the only real goal was to maintain a superior angle with regards to foot placement. The big lesson for me was that I had been trying for a much bigger flanking angle than was needed. Flank to wide and every idiot out there will just turn to face you. Flank more subtly and they often don't even notice they have been outflanked. I was pretty startled at how much advantage just 5 or 10 degrees can make.

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  Mike Patterson on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:30 pm

omar-belove wrote:Could you elaborate a little bit on the different between "yao" and "pyan"? If you can type Chinese, the characters would be helpful for me to get a feeling for what you mean. I am guessing it's 摇 and 偏 but that's just a guess. I also have a suspicion that "yao" is closer to what is emphasized in Baji. As for "pyan", again, I can only guess but I have a strong feeling it's basically what I was drilling in the week leading up to my leitai fight. Did a bunch of very light sparring where the only real goal was to maintain a superior angle with regards to foot placement. The big lesson for me was that I had been trying for a much bigger flanking angle than was needed. Flank to wide and every idiot out there will just turn to face you. Flank more subtly and they often don't even notice they have been outflanked. I was pretty startled at how much advantage just 5 or 10 degrees can make.

You've got the characters right, Omar. "Yao", to shake; and "Pyan", to evade or flank.

Yao would be one of Xingyi's five key words. In our method, it is often used in a context of pushing on the face, head or shoulder. Or grabbing/hooking the neck, waist, upper bicep of the arm, wrist, to force a turn of the opponent's body gaining a flank position sufficient enough to temporarily render utility of the opponent's other hand moot.

Pyan would for us be the utilization of footwork to gain as you said, "a superior angle" again temporarily rendering the opponent's other hand utility moot. We use pyan in two primary ways.. for counter offense, we will often "draw" the opponent's lead so that we can "pass" his secondary and achieve advantage. For offense, we will stride quickly to the opponent's inside or outside in order to force a turn, then cut back quickly to pass the guard and get the first strike.

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  omar-belove on Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:29 pm

Thanks.

Never heard the specific terms in that context before. They both make intuitive sense though.

A little Bagua action I snuck into my Baji matches. Yao? Maybe?

"Pyan" maybe more like this:

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  Paul Sacramento on Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:43 pm

natsuchato wrote:Just curious, if you could specialize in only two striking styles, what would they be? Mine would be boxing and muay thai, although I love the quickness and explosiveness of TKD.

TCMA wise:
Northern Mantis and Baji
Southern Mantis and Hung Kuen


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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  Mike Patterson on Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:26 pm

omar-belove wrote:Thanks.

Never heard the specific terms in that context before. They both make intuitive sense though.

A little Bagua action I snuck into my Baji matches. Yao? Maybe?

"Pyan" maybe more like this:

The images are a bit small, but... looks like in the first clip you enter and pressure his head/neck with your right hand, so that he is unable to turn, while you are moving to his oblique. And then hook his shoulder while pushing on his back with your other hand so that you can control his balance. So yeah, that would be one manifestation of Yao in combat. Nicely done. Smile

The second clip.. yeah, you are using a rear cross step pattern to get offline of his rush and that is indeed one way to utilize Pyan. Although you were just a bit too far out to capitalize. Still, nice read on his coming right lunge. Good job, Omar. Smile

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

Post  omar-belove on Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:05 am

Thanks.

Sorry about the tiny .gifs. It's the best I could figure out using free software.

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Re: If you could combine 2 striking fighting styles what would they be?

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